The podcast

Sanity,
still pending.

Two friends, two entrepreneurs, two moms, figuring it out loud. Restaurants, corporate chaos, motherhood, and the friendship that survived all of it.

Christina and Ani, hosts of the Sanity Pending podcast

What's the show?

Real talk from people still mid-figuring-it-out.

Christina and Ani met through their sons and ended up surviving lockdown in the same building, the kind of bond that's forged somewhere between shared breakdowns.

Now they're pulling back the curtain on what it actually takes to be entrepreneurs, raise kids, and stay (mostly) sane while doing all of it at once. Honest, funny, and occasionally unhinged, because the polished version was never the interesting one.

Jump to the latest episodes โ†’

Your hosts

The two behind the mic

Christina Mouratoglou

Restaurateur ยท Co-founder of Mazi ยท Mom

Christina Mouratoglou is the hospitality powerhouse of the show. Born in Thessaloniki, she helped redefine Greek food in London as co-founder of the acclaimed restaurants Mazi, Suzi Tros, and Maza, building a celebrated group from the ground up. On the mic she brings the unvarnished reality of running restaurants: the highs, the grind, and what it actually costs to build something while raising a family. Expect warmth, big opinions, and zero pretending.

Christina on LinkedIn โ†—

Ani Attamian

Founder of LEMA ยท Strategist ยท Mom

With over 22+ years of corporate experience, Ani went from agency-side marketing to senior strategy and AI roles, including 11 years at Google, before founding LEMA, where she helps leadership teams cut through the noise to the real problem. On the mic that becomes sharp, no-BS takes on ambition, building things, corporate absurdity, and how to do it all without losing yourself. She would rather give you the honest answer than the comfortable one, which is exactly what she and Christina have in common.

Ani on LinkedIn โ†—

Watch & listen

Latest from the feed

Watch on YouTube or press play below. New episodes drop regularly, so hit subscribe.

Read the transcript of the latest episode

Auto-generated from the episode audio, so there may be the odd typo.

Everything's fine.

Everything is fine.

Talk to you.

Oh, yes. This one. This one. Okay. Everything's fine. The business is thriving. The kids are somewhere. We've definitely slept. We have plenty of time. The inbox is at zero. Hi, I'm Annie. Can't pick it up.

I'm Christina.

Boston. Do that again. Welcome to Sanity Pending, where we share our grip with reality and hopefully something to give you a bit of hope with your reality, too.

So, do you have another crazy morning?

Oh, yes. You want to hear about my morning?

What happened?

Okay. So,

every day is a new adventure.

Exactly. So, at 700 a.m. uh my Well, it's the the school holidays, so the kids are not in school.

And uh my nanny called me very early this morning to say that she's running very very late. She had an emergency and she couldn't be here at home until 12:00. So, we had this podcast filming planned. We had I had some work calls in the morning and basically I have no child care. So, I just brought the kids with me in this whole thing. They're just right there watching films

for us to be able to do this. So, yeah. Just another crazy morning.

Just another morning. Yeah. But you I like that the people are doing more of I think maybe it was co or what but people got a little bit more comfortable with the reality of life and bringing their kids with them.

Yeah, you just have to go with the flow. So I had no child no choice and I think it's very important to don't let anything get in your way. Uh no obstacles. So your child care couldn't make it this this morning. You don't cancel your plans. Just bring your kids with it with you. And it's actually quite nice because I work many hours and I work a lot of hours, you know, outside the house. I don't get to see them as much as I want to.

Yeah.

Uh so it it's kind of fun for them as well to to see what mommy does when she's not at home.

Yeah.

And for them to to see, you know, the reality is it's nice for them to, you know.

Yeah. They

Do they ask you? Do they ask?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They love it. They love it. And I actually uh made them help a little bit set up the restaurant. I said, you know,

earn some money, some work.

Mhm.

I promised them a five each if they help set up the restaurant. And they they did it and they love it.

Yes.

And it's good. They they see they learn the value of money. They see how you work.

How you work.

Yeah. I think that's really important.

Yeah. I think uh I was I was seeing I read somewhere that somebody was saying you know when you cuz you when you're working you feel bad because you're not with them.

Yes.

And then when you're with them you know that something is falling apart at work. So you know that you're either have going to have to make up for that at 2 in the morning.

Yeah.

Or you're going to have to make up with that somewhere. Something's going to fall apart. Something has to give. But I think that um when you they start to get older and you can explain to them and they can talk to you about work,

they almost like really respect that and they start to see why you enjoy and you agree and I think as you said they respect that and it's good to see that in this day and age you know mommy's trying to to I yeah I'm not there all the time not as much as I would love to. M

uh sometimes I feel very guilty for missing out on things. Um but I always try to be there on the very important things and I find that it's better to spend quality time with them than spending more time and it's not quality cuz you also have the other way that sometimes you know you have more time with your kids but everybody's on their phone and you're working it's not quality whether you're there or not they makes no difference. Mhm.

So, it's nice to to have this really quality time with them.

And uh I think it's important for them to see that mommy's working.

Yes.

And you have to in this day and age and it's important for my daughter.

Yes.

Cuz she she needs to see how you know women need to be independent and you need to earn your own living.

And also at the same time for my son,

you know, growing up. Yes. I almost feel like sometimes right now it's almost more important for me is

and I remember um it was my mother-in-law's birthday and one of the things that I said to her was one of the first questions I asked my husband was does your mother work

because to me it was important that he to understand what he thought about them.

Yes.

Not because and I think I told you this before but I hadn't if you had asked me then I probably would have told you I don't want to work when I have kids. But then when I did have children, I wanted to work.

Yes.

And I just wanted to choose what I was doing more specifically. So that it was worth it and I got more fulfillment out of it.

But it was also important to me that the person that I married understood or had a perspective and he told me that his sister worked and his mother worked and explained to me about, you know, what that balance was like in his life and what he witnessed. And it kind of almost made me more comfortable that she had showed him that.

Yes. Because we deal with it as like a modern couple that is

trying to figure out this balance is

not easy either side.

It's not easy for them. It's not easy for us

because it's all it's more new than it was in the previous

Absolutely.

generation. Yeah. And I think what what um a man is used to in his house at the beginning, that's what he subconsciously that's what he expects in the marriage. And for example, my mother-in-law didn't work. She still had to raise three kids, which is a different story. That's how difficult it is, you know, raising three kids without help. Um arguably that's difficult.

Yeah, that's a full-time job. And I was talking to a friend of mine, well another mom uh at the park the other day and she is now working um her husband's working full-time and she's raising these three children uh very close in ages with each other and she was telling me that sometimes she wishes she could go back to work because she finds it more demanding and and I believe her. I I completely get it. She was telling me that sometimes, you know, she has this complete burnout days. um just from driving the kids around and from trying to follow their social schedules um because I was complaining that I'm always tired and then she said well on the other side this is what's happening to me

and um so to come back to to my my husband for example because his mother didn't work at the beginning of of our journey into parenthood sometimes he would make up some comments like oh you should be doing more arts and crafts with the children and

uh you should be doing more this and more that and I said well I would love to but sorry I don't have time and it's not like they're always my priority

but I I cannot you know work 16 hours a day and also do arts and craft on that day you know something's got to give

and I think it's very important

and there's only 24 hours in a day

yeah exactly even if you wake up at 5 at 6. Yes. I mean, before I couldn't get up. I'm telling you, like I'm a big sleeper and I love sleeping. I could not get up and I'm Greek. So, I could not get up before 12 and I would go to bed late because that's the culture.

Yeah.

And for me 12:00 was morning. You so say good morning. And then gradually I you know when I started working really hard in London but because with my work I'm a bit more flexible would still be nine but then when I had kids it was seven and now the seven has become six and even five sometimes

because I I it's the only time I have to catch up with my emails and you know don't get disturbed and I used to see all these very successful people who used to say oh wake up at 5 and think oh my god seriously like how why yes Why? And now I completely get it because there's no other way.

I'm converted.

You know what I measure my my life by? Like what happened to my coffees?

So it used to be coffee would be you would go out with your friends, have brunch, sit there, people watch a beautiful restaurant or cafe, drink a cup of coffee that was cold warm. Then it got to, okay, there's a cup of coffee sitting on the counter. If you can get to it by the time it's lukewarm, you've succeeded for the day. And then it became, okay, if a few hours later you drank the coffee, great. And now it's I want it to be cold because I need to down it in one sip to get out the door. So that's like the transition of, you know, what's happened to

coffee in my life

and how I enjoy things or how I look at things that go from an enjoyment to survival.

Yeah.

And ironically, when I lived in San Francisco, I rarely had coffee and I would drink more tea. Then I moved to London. in the land of tea

and you drink

and now I drink coffee just to survive.

It's your it's your push. It's your It's your push.

Yeah. And I understand why, you know, um when you stop taking when you stop drinking coffee. Actually, I didn't even realize that I how much I was drinking until I went to Greece to reset after I left Google

and I started to have headaches

and I was wondering why why am I having headaches? And I realized it's because when I was in London, I was probably drinking three or four cups of coffee a day. not even thinking about it

just to get through the day.

But the first few days getting off of caffeine, you had a withdrawal since Yes. It's addiction basically.

It is caffeine addiction. So,

but I can't live without

No, I don't.

I just try not to drink more than two.

Yeah. Two. Yeah. I'm only two.

Two, three.

Sorry.

Otherwise, how can you make it through the day? No.

The first I can't wake up. I have to the second I wake up, I have to have coffee first,

then go into my work mode,

then coffee again midm morning to help me push and then depending on the day maybe in the afternoon.

Yeah, but I I agree.

And then when I can't sleep at 2 in the morning,

you you take coffee at 2:00 in the morning.

No, but when I Yeah, of course. If I'm drinking too late, then I know that

because No, because I knew I knew someone that used to drink coffee before going to bed.

Mhm.

And they were telling me that this is how they sleep.

Oh, wow. I do I have met a couple of people like that that I don't understand. But

they were making a coffee in bed actually. But I feel like maybe their caffeine doesn't impact their body the way that

Yeah, it does. Yes. I don't know.

Oh my god. What happened to your thumb?

This was a few weeks ago. I cracked my finger in half rushing to an appointment uh which was about an hour away. So I took a 45minut tube which was good because in the tube I'm sending emails responding to things admin basically. Tube has become admin time.

Yeah.

Okay. Any form of transit that is not a car or where you're driving is admin time.

So um I was very happy because I was very productive on that tube ride because I didn't have to think about changing or anything. So, I get to my appointment.

It was one way, but at the end I had to take a taxi the last 15 minutes

um in East London and basically I got out of the taxi cab and it was one of those days where it was windy. He started to pull away and the wind slammed the door on my finger. And so I was like, "Okay, I've just traveled 1 hour. I'm not going to turn around and go back." Even though my finger is kind of hanging. Oh my god. Oh wow. That shows determination. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing being nothing.

All I can think about is I'm either waste two hours on a commute that doesn't actually end in a meeting or I'm going to deal with the meeting. Take a deep breath. Deal with a meeting and then deal with this later.

So I went to the the door and I said, "I'm here for this meeting." I gave him my name. I said, "But I also need a band-aid." And he brought me a band-aid which he started to slowly unpeel like a sloth as my fingers bleeding profusely.

Yeah. He gives me that band-aid and I was like, I can't even open it because I have one hand. So, I'm trying to hold it. So, there's, you know, blood isn't going everywhere. So, I'm like, "You have to open it cuz I only have one hand to work with." So, he opened it slowly.

Yeah.

And then, uh, he called the person who I was meeting with and they eventually gave me some ice thankfully. And then on the way home and you had the meeting.

I had the meeting, but I was so busy about

work. It was about work. Yeah.

Wow. Wait. So, were were they your clients?

Yes. A potential client. So, I've had to keep it together.

Keep it together and to keep it together to get them as a client with your How did it go? Did you get the client?

It went well. It went the client.

But then it was, you know, you you don't know what's happening with your fingers. I got an X-ray later. I saw that it was actually broken. Oh my god.

And I sent them the X-ray to prove, listen, I'm not just a wimp fainting,

almost fainting before our meetings. But but it was uh the meeting went well, but I was extremely dizzy and it's because the tip of your finger is where your pulse is.

And for two days, I could barely make it. No matter how much coffee I had, I could barely make it to the afternoon because I felt so bad.

Wow.

And now 3 weeks later, I'm going to the doctor.

Oh, well done. I mean, well done for for going through that meeting and pitching. I mean, you must be so distressful. you have your your broken finger and at the same time you have to keep it together cuz it's it's a very important meeting

and but you know what I was thinking about the whole reason I was thinking about how much time will I lose if I don't do this

rescheduling traveling back wasting two hours to get here and back

to have and the money and not to have a result

yes

and then on the I got lucky because my my I had some family in town over the weekend and so I called them and I was supposed to meet somebody for dinner, uh, one of my family members for dinner that night. And she said to me, "Oh, this happened to me. The biggest piece of advice is ice."

So, I was going to a restaurant to meet her that night, and I brought eight like pouches of ice that I was circulating.

Oh my god.

Through the restaurant.

Oh my god.

Um, because I didn't know what they were going to have, and I didn't want them to think, you know, and I just kept icing it for the 3-hour dinner that we had, the back and forth. And I think that saved my finger because it was not still the same size.

Nice.

You know, could be worse.

Yeah, it could be worse.

Could be worse.

Well done, Annie. Yeah. And that was a week after I got robbed. How did you get robbed?

So with Matias, I was with my son Matias.

Your son was there when he got robbed?

Yes. So I took him to see Matilda with our godson

and he we had a great day and he said let's take the bus back and pretend to drive the bus back home. So we were in near the west end waiting for the bus and he kept checking uh for the the timings on the bus arrival

and I think there was somebody standing behind me watching all of this happened seeing that I'm distracted and even you know he's seven and he said when he was telling the story later to the the when we were trying to shut down my phone at the Apple store which we went to yeah after he told the man who was working there then he said my mom was watching me to make sure that I was safe and that's when the man took the phone from Oh

yeah, I know. And I felt I felt bad for him cuz I've been mugged before, but properly mugged. Really?

This I didn't even feel. But I've been

proper. So you didn't even There it wasn't one of these guys that just rode and grabbed you.

No, he just reached into my pockets behind me. Pick pocket. Yeah, completely.

Oh my god.

Mhm.

That's horrible. Yeah.

And what happens? Like you shut down your iPhone, but then everything is saved on the cloud so you don't lose.

So the problem is so you go I immediately went called banks. Uh went to the Apple store first. um got my and the irony is I have a password that's this long for cyber security reasons. So I called my husband and he one by one was telling me the letters, the numbers, the exclamation points. So I read that out at the counter um and then he erased he set it up to erase the phone and he said, "Are you sure you want to erase?" But the problem is I don't want pictures of my children.

Yeah, of course. That's what would worry me the most is like

pictures of my kids and very personal stuff. I don't care about

Exactly.

emails.

Exactly. Yeah.

So, yes. So, that was a week before mine.

Wow. Nice. Nice. Uh nice March. Nice March.

Happy Mother's Day.

Happy Mother's Day. Happy birthday.

Happy birthday. Yes.

Happy Women's Day.

Very good. Well done. Good March. Yeah. So, now April should be good.

April. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see what Let's see. Hopefully more sunshine.

Good news, not bad news.

Well, depends. Depends depends for it's going to be I think for us it's going to be a difficult month for hospitality.

Yeah.

But

because of because of what's happening

because of I I think you know this government doesn't understand at all um the the nature of hospitality and they clearly don't want to support it. They made it very clear and officially uh one of Rachel Reeves's advisors uh came out and said we don't need any more restaurants in this country. Um they it's impossible even if you're busy every day and touch wood we are you still can break a profit and

you know it's very worrying because everything is going up.

Um I think people themselves are very squeezed from everywhere. you have all these wars that are raging around and all this uncertainty. Uh so, you know, it's it's not easy, but you have to you have to keep going forward. That that's what I always say. You have to adjust to the times. You have to keep going forward.

Whatever it is, we're going to we we survived COVID. We survived

Brexit. Trying to survive. There was a report about um I saw actually in the travel industry someone posted about this about saying that the VAT across all these I forget how many countries may over 10 countries around the world the VAT across the board the UK was the only one where the VAT for hospitality was equally as high as the regular VAT is. It's the highest proet rate uh in Europe.

Yeah. And it's and the and the the crazy part is that we buy everything without V

but we have to sell with

VH and it's really unfair and you know the the the counselor chancellor

chancellor

chancellor Greek

the chancellor is um so from April it's increasing our business rates

they're increasing the minimum wage they already increased the national insurance contributions

for for us.

Uh they increased the VAT.

That's right. The they increased the tax. So there's nowhere to hide and inflation on top of that.

Yeah.

So everything we buy has gone and then you try so much not to pass it on to the consumers.

Yeah.

Because they are struggling as well.

But then now we've reached to a point where we we can't we have to increase our person. And I think that's going to happen across the board everywhere because it's unsustainable.

And you definitely feel it in London. You feel it in Europe.

You feel it. Yes. I think after I think all the after the Ukraine war as well, that's where after co and the Ukraine war, that's where inflation because of the the the gas and and now you have the petrol. So it's just

nonstop.

Non-stop. Nontop.

But we're going to make it.

We're going to make it. Yes. We have to. We have to, right? Yeah. Ants. Yeah.

Where to find us

Listen wherever you are

Pick your platform and subscribe. It genuinely helps the show.

Get the next episode in your inbox

No spam, just a heads-up when a new episode lands, plus the occasional unhinged bonus.